analyses
the chiasmus theory
written by Eric Spierings
introduction
In this summary I will put together the most important postings about The Chiasmus theory. There are other postings related to this special form of symmetry, and if they proove to add something to the chiasmus theory, I will add them. Some of the mailing have been edited. This is indicated with .... Original posting start with the header in a preformated font When there are several related posting together, they are separated by ====. Where I added some comments in the posting, it is placed between []. Sometimes I will refer to other postings with [see name@xx.yy.zz, date, chap. x] Most of the time you can click there to see the posting.
This summary tries to follow a logical line rather than a chronological one. This means that some postings are parted to put them at the right place.
I tried to acknowledge the right people for their ideas, but if I made mistakes with that, feel free to contact me. Also other comments are very welcome.
contents
What is the Chiasmus Structure
1) What is the Chiasmus Structure
Soon after my first posting about the Chiasmus theory [see ericsp@ulrik.uio.no, 20 Feb 1995, chap. 2] several people asked me explain exactly what I meant by this. Therefore I posted the following message to the newsgroup.
From: "Eric H.T. Spierings" ericsp@ulrik.uio.no Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd Subject: Re: PUBLIUS: Chiasmus (More evidence) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 07:31:11 +0100For people who do not exactly understand what is meant by chiasmus, I will shortly explain. It is a structure used in literature (my Dutch anthem has a chiasmus structure eg). The name is derived from the greek letter chi, which looks like X. The name is given to the structure because it can be drawn in it. To do so, you should put all 'parts' in two columns, the first 'parts' in the first and the last in the last, just in the order the are (like I did in the first post). If you can connect the first and the last (CO and HH), the second with the one before the last one (WDYWFM and LFW) and so on, a 'cross' appears (try it yourself with 4 parts and you will see the X shape if you draw the lines). But there must be a relation between first and last etc to have the structure.
On Mon, 20 Feb 1995 20:03:33 +0100 I started to participate actively in the Enigma. My suggestion for a structure like this is mainly based upon the large number of symmetrical pictures. Besides this, there were several pictures which were mirrored either in the songbook or in the CD- booklet. But my main argument was the way the targets were placed on the page of contents and the way they arranged the titles of the songs in the songbook. 2) Evidence for the Chiasmus in TDB
From: "Eric H.T. Spierings" ericsp@ulrik.uio.no Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd Subject: PUBLIUS: Chiasmus Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 20:03:33 +0100I have been thinking about this for months and Publius made me thinking about it again. Even before I had heard of him/her, I believed that there was some symmetri in TDB.
When I downloaded a picture of the US frontcover of TDB, the first thing I noticed was that it was mirrored (compared to the EMI version). I put the blame on the person who had scanned it. I thought he had either made a mistake while he scanned it, or he had manipulated the picture. Later, when I bought the poster, I noticed it was exactly the same as the scanned cover (main tower of the cathedral on the right side). I suppose this has been noticed before and I would like to hear the interpretation of this. [later I had to correct my statement about the CD covers, see brown@iowave.physics.uiowa.edu, Tue, 21 Feb 1995, chap. 2 and ericsp@ulrik.uio.no, Thu, 23 Feb 1995, chap. 2]
This fact, the sig of Eric DA Sharpe (pure symmetri) and the problems with the numbers, supported me to take a second look at TDB as a symmetrical work.
Starting with the numberproblem (maybe someone can summarize were they came from). I recognized some symetri in these numbers or whatever they are called. 27:09 or 9.81N or the three dots in CO, all are symmetrical! 2+7=0+9, 9=8+1 and if you mirror the dots, the picture does not change. Maybe 66:33 has something to do with it, but I can't fit that one into my hypothesis.
In one of the ECHOSERV files I read about parts of music (in CO I thought) that were inverted. Today I analyzed the songbook (Guitar edition) and I discovered that the gloves in LFW were mirrored, compared to the picture in the EMI booklet (yes Mark, that should mean that 4 persons are left and only three are right! Who is who? What picture should we choose?)
So, finally I suspected a chiasmatic structure in TDB. And, as my grandmother uses to say, look for it and you will find it. But I am 99.9% shure that this is not a coincidence. If you open the songbook at the page of contents, you will see all the songs marked with an 'eye'. All 'eyes' have a coloured centre, a white ring and a coloured outer ring, just like the eyes of the sculptures. All except *one*, which is WtIO. This 'eye' has a white centre, a coloured ring and a white outer ring. This song plays a central role in the chiasma. It is number 6, 5 songs completed, 5 to go. The title suggests something like mirroring. It is also exactly in the middle of the CD booklet (EMI)
If you take a second look at the songbook, you will see that the title above the score is not always on the first page of the score. This is definitely *not* due to lack of space (see CO for example). The way they arranged the titles, resulted in all titles before WtIO on the left pages and after WtIO on the right (mirrored) pages!
According to a chiasmus structure (X-shaped) the following songs should be related (first with last etc)
CO -------- HH WDYWFM ---- LFW
PA ----- KT
Mar ---- CBTL
AGDFF -- TIB
The relation could be in
- interpretation (same ore exactly the opposite)
- structure (music or text)
Via AGDFF (Publius), Mark Brown, Matt Denault (22-10-94) and St Martin of Tours we already found a possible cross motif. And remember the WtIO upside down door and the inverted cross in Westminster (Mark Brown 28-10-94) !! [see also ilan@ldc6.whp.advantis.com], Wed, 22 Feb 1995 ch. 5]. There has been a lot of interpretation in this newsgroup, so I hope someone will be able to connect those songs. [Several people responded to this. Chap. 3 has the most important postings about it]
Soon after this, I had to correct my statement about the UK vs US cd-booklet. After some personal communication with Mark Brown, I concluded that both were the same.
>>>>
From: brown@iowave.physics.uiowa.edu Subject: Re: PUBLIUS: Chiasmus Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 08:11:06 GMTI have both EMI and Columbia copies, and it's not reversed. Are you sure? Did you compare the two CDs side by side, like me?
From: "Eric H.T. Spierings" ericsp@ulrik.uio.no Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd Subject: Re: PUBLIUS: Chiasmus (Correction) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 07:40:57 +0100Have to correct a statement I made earlier. Due to manipulation on a scanned US CD cover, I made a mistake. Both UK and US are orientated in the same way (Thanks, Mark). BUT, my poster has a left to right reversal. My Chiasmus theory will survive. There seem to be posters which do not have this reversal.
>>>>
Fortunately, Craig could give us all the answer were the 9.81N cam from.
Date: Mon, 27 FEB 95 16:40:55 EST From: Craig McGee 'mcgee@victor.wariat.org' Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd Subject: Re: Publius: 9.81NIt was written on the stage as part of the Earls Court PPV signal aired Nov. 1 1994 in the USA.
>>>>
Later I added some more possible evidence that the chiasmus idea could be right. It was based on the photo of the table tennis game in the songbook. I suggested that this could mean that after the central song WtIO the view could change to the other side. Or that the related songs are dealing with the same subject but from a different point of view. Judson Eleicester Lester added his findings of symmetry in the page numbers. The sum is palindromic. And the palindromic structure is related to the chiasmus.
>>>>
From: "Eric H.T. Spierings" 'ericsp@ulrik.uio.no' Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd Subject: Re: PUBLIUS: Chiasmus (More evidence) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 07:31:11 +0100Several people were wondering about the table tennis game. I think there might be some evidence in that picture for what I stated in my first Chiasmus posting. I talked about the 5-1-5 structure I was thinking of (5 songs WTIO and 5 songs again). In the table tennis game the first player is allowed to serve 5 times. After that, the service goes to the other side. Could this mean that the first 5 songs are looking at a situation in one way and that the other 5 do it in exactly the other way? For the moment I don't know.From: sothoth@fermat.cs.jhu.edu (Judson Eleicester Lester) Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd Subject: PUBLIUS PAGE NUMBER SUM Date: 26 Feb 1995 07:15:49 GMTAs a bit of interesting (and hopefully useful) trivia:
- The page numbers in TDB art total 141.
- This is interesting because it is a palindromic number.
- (That means, it reads the same forwards and backwards.)
- (I.e. its symetricall. Like all the numbers in TDB seem to be.)
About the faces/face and three dot theory (that they indicate the coming together or combination of parts to form the final solution: Isn't it possible that this is further indicative of a general approach: that symetrical things should be somehow combined to form solutions (or, stretching, things that combine to form symetrical things are part of the solution?).......
3) The related songs
In my first posting [see ericsp@ulrik.uio.no, Mon, 20 Feb 1995 chap. 2] I coupled the songs according to the chiasmus theory. Sean M. Heisler was the first who tried to fit the songs in this scheme. I think it is a good base to built further theories.
>>>>
Date: 21 Feb 1995 05:22:08 GMT From: Sean M Heisler 'sheisler@iastate.edu' Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd Subject: Re: PUBLIUS: ChiasmusI think you may have something here. I haven't studied the songs yet, but right off hand I can see some connections possibly.
CO and HH-- there is a reference to looking back to the early years, years when PF had very much an "astral" image.
WDYWFM and LFW--both very much in vein. They are from a point of view that is "asking."
PA and KT-- PA is much about Syd and Roger, the two that lack much in communication---KT is very much a main song regarding the communication or lack of communication theme.
MAR and CBTL-- Both have reference to sounds of water or the sea. Marrooned obviously and CBTL the artwork. Isn't it Marooned at the end that sounds like it fades into the beginning of CBTL? Maybe not, but there are a couple of songs that sound like they should run into each other but they are not arranged on the disc that way.
AGDFF and TIB --AGDFF seems to be about a nice dream that Gilmour has, where someone may have taken something back and all the bitter residue had slipped away?????
That leaves WTIO? Hmm...? I am hesitant to speculate just yet on this one. What do you think? Remeber these are off the top of my head. Hope this helps.
>>>>
Later, a more general view was posted. It fits in my table tennis idea, that WtIO marks a change in mood or view. It has been discussed later by several people. The conclusion up til now is that we do not agree that there is a positive-negative relation between the songs before WtIO and the songs after it.
>>>>
From: ez050172@pebbles.ucdavis.edu (Alex Pomeranz) Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd Subject: Re: PUBLIUS: Chiasmus (Watch CD player's display) Date: 25 Feb 1995 07:19:39 GMTHere's something I noticed:
The songs before WTIO all have to do with negative things. Read the lyrics and notice the general connotation of the lyrics is negative. And while the two instrumentals (Cluster One and Marooned) are both on this side, look at the names. Cluster One reminds me of a star system or some nebulous thing, way out in space, all alone. The word "One" reminds me of solitude. The word Marooned reflects this theme of solitude.
But after WTIO, things change. Suddenly, we have songs about making up and communcating. Take It Back, Coming Back to Life, Keep Talking, Lost for Words, and High Hopes all deal with mostly positive things (with the exception of the twist ending on LFW, but even that still maintains a semi-positive outlook).
So there's your duality in terms of negative and positive connotations.
But that still leaves us with WTIO (which also the lyrics happen to be RIGHT in the center of the booklet, on both pages. I don't know if this is just my imagination or what, but look at the picture. On the left page (representing the previous songs) is a shadow.
Darkness. Negativity.
On the right page is the light. And after that, all the songs turn to positive connotations.====
From: sothoth@emanon.cs.jhu.edu (Judson Eleicester Lester) Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd Subject: Re: PUBLIUS: Chiasmus (Watch CD player's display) Date: 27 Feb 1995 08:38:32 GMTHas anyone ELSE ever put a Floyd album on shuffle or random play? Ever notic how bits of music you THOUGHT were part of one song were in fact (recorded) as the end of another, how Floyd albums all have a smooth progresion from song to song, so its hard to pick things out? Note that this smooth progression is missing on TDB. Note the some songs (I KNOW High Hopes does this with Cluster One and have heard that it work elsewhere) seem like they would lead into one another, if only they were sequential. Turn the volume up. Play HH to the end. Note the radio static. Now push stop, the play. Note the same static at the beginning of Cluster One. Interesting, no? I have heard that other songs do this (aparently in accordance to the Chiasmus Effect). Can anyone confirm this?Suggestion as a major theme in TDB (or at least the Enigma): Symmetry, mirrors, reversal. (And doesn't the title Wearing the Inside Out suggest a flipping, a reversal, an inversion?)....
====
From: Mark Brown 'brown@iowave.physics.uiowa.edu' Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd Subject: Re: PUBLIUS PAGE NUMBER SUM Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995... However, there do seem to be signs of symmetry around the "central" song, WtIO, that people are writing about for the first time. Here are a few things that I don't think have been in the newsgroup yet, based on pairing the songs that are "equidistant from WtIO":.....
All I can see here is that boxing gloves might go along with the idea of "fractured faces" on the mirror ball -- pretty weak.
- Poles Apart / Keep Talking:
- What Do You Want From Me / Lost For Words:
...
====
Date: Mon, 27 FEB 95 13:07:29 EST From: Craig McGee 'mcgee@victor.wariat.org' Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd Subject: PUBLIUS:BOXING GLOVESThe boxing gloves are reversed, simply the right glove is on the left and left glove is on the right. The more I think about these gloves the more I wonder if they were placed that way to get us to think of a reversed image.I don't think there was any sort of trick photography used in this photo I just think that it is pointing us to the mirror ball in "What Do You Want From Me"
Images appear reversed in a mirror. Think about it...
The gloves are reversed, images appear reversed in a mirror, there is a mirror ball included in the artwork, behind the ball are pearls, the woman in the Shine On film with the mask, the mask is called a "domino", she is also wearing the pearls. The reversed picture of the gloves could just simply be a clue to look into the mirror ball.
I wonder how many people have held the image of the gloves up to their mirror without realizing the mirror ball first?
====
From: Eric Spierings 'ericsp@ulrik.uio.no' Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd Subject: Re: PUBLIUS PAGE NUMBER SUM Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 18:22:14 +0100Indeed, pretty weak, but a good attempt to fit all the songs into the chiasmus theory. WDYWFM/LFW might be more like Craig stated earlier. In LFW they are playing with mirrors. The left glove is on the right side and the right one on the left. Also this picture is present in the songbook in a mirrored version. (conclusion: it doesn't matter in what way you look at these gloves. The Right On is left) And the mirrors are present in the WDYWFM artwork.....
4) The central song in TDB: WtIO
According to the chiasmus theory, all songs are connected to another one. However, we got 11 songs, so one remains. This should be WtIO, which should be the center song in the cross.>>>>
From: ez050172@pebbles.ucdavis.edu (Alex Pomeranz) Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd Subject: Re: PUBLIUS: Chiasmus (Watch CD player's display) Date: 25 Feb 1995 07:19:39 GMT..... But that still leaves us with WTIO (which also the lyrics happen to be RIGHT in the center of the booklet, on both pages. I don't know if this is just my imagination or what, but look at the picture. On the left page (representing the previous songs) is a shadow. Darkness. Negativity. On the right page is the light. And after that, all the songs turn to positive connotations.====
From: "Sean M Heisler" sheisler@iastate.edu Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd Subject: Re: PUBLIUS: Chiasmus (Watch CD player's display) Date: 25 Feb 1995 23:38:55 GMTVery Good!!!!! I am really seeing a lot in this "chiasmus" idea. Just a small addition to what you said above, the actual name "Wearing the Inside Out" parallels the idea of going from negative outlooks to positive ones ---turning the inside out or "reversing" so to speak! Another thing is, it is the only song not sung by Gilmour. There are just too many things that point to WTIO as being a "transition" song, it does seem to be a "buffer."====
From: ack@cs.wisc.edu (Emmanuel Ackaouy) Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd Subject: Re: Words opposite WtiO Date: 24 Feb 1995 18:47:53 GMTI'm most likely wrong, but I can't recall anyone having studied these lines. I don't have the booklet here with me, but I remember seeing an obvious pattern there. Interestingly enough, this pattern is related to an idea which has been discussed here in the past week (or so).1 and 11, 2 and 10... [refering to the chiasmus] Read the lines again.
From: jasonro@chinook.halcyon.com (Jason Roth) Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd Subject: PUBLIUS: Chiasmus (Watch CD player's display) Date: 25 Feb 1995 00:25:31 GMTThis talk of Chiasmus is really interesting...I think we're on to something. Here's some physical evidence on the CD _itself_ to support that.I noticed something VERY important about our "key" song WtIO (from what I gather, most people see it as the center of the album or of the chiasmus because it's song number 6, between the first and last 5 songs).
It's the ONLY song on the album with a "leader". That is, it has a header of one second of silence marked as NEGATIVE time. Not only that, but there's a leader before song 7 too, essentially isolating WtIO on the album.
Most CD players will display the number of the track and -00:01 and count down to 0, then start counting forwards. It is customary on many CD's to have a "leader" of about 3 seconds between each song. However, TDB does not, the tracks just run into one another with no leader in between, except before and after WtIO. This song must be a sort of "buffer" song for the album.
Listen to the album from: A Great Day for Freedom through to Take It Back...and _WATCH_ your CD player's display after AGDfF and before TIB, you will see a little 1 or 2 second leader...your CD's readout will count down briefly 2 seconds of silence. For example, after track 5 (AGDfF) you'll see something like: [5] 4:16 and then [6] -0:01
I've only tried this on two CD players so far: my CD-ROM drive and my Sony Discman...also, this is with the Capitol release. Let me know if I'm seeing things.
What's the point of all this? There _is_ something very special about WtIO and the fact that it is the center of the album. There is definitely something to the Chiasmus idea!
====
From: COLEMAN4829@duq3.cc.duq.edu (Coleman John) Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd Subject: Re: PUBLIUS: Chiasmus (Watch CD player's display) Date: 25 Feb 1995 06:18:30 GMTJason Roth (jasonro@chinook.halcyon.com) wrote:
: ....Sounds like a great idea, but...Since this song is in the middle of the album, the silence around it could account for a side break on another medium, such as the cassette version. However, I do not have the cassette version (nor the LP) so I can't say for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if WEARING THE INSIDE OUT was either the last song on side A or the first song on side B of the cassette. This MIGHT explain the silence around this song on the CD release.
====
From: rondeauda1@aspen.uml.edu Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd Subject: Re: More on WtIO Date: 1 Mar 95 23:54:51 -0500The line " I'm wearing the inside out" is the 19th line of the song followed by 18 more lines, making the "inside out " line dead center! Maybe that line is the center time wise of the cd? Maybe.>>>>
Conclusion, it's hard to draw a good conclusion. Most important thing is to connect the songs and find the relation between them. WtIO is the last song on the tape. However there is also a space between AGDFF and WtIO.
There's a silence surrounding me (KT)
The result of connecting the songs according to the chiasmus theory is a cross. This cross symbol has been found in some artworks in TDB, in AGDFF and in LFW. Here are the two postings about the crosses. I am still thinking about the nun found by THE MAN (or I would say, it's Maria). She could have to do something with the cross. 5) Chiasmus and the Enigma; The Cross
From: Ilan Michael 'ilan@ldc6.whp.advantis.com' Subject: PUBLIUS: A GREAT DAY...NEWSPAPER HEADS Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 03:00:55 GMTHas anyone noticed that if you look at the left head, below FRE, there is a big shadow of what appears at first to be an X, but upon further and closer examination is actually a shadow of two hammers crossing over each other?!====
From: sothoth@emanon.cs.jhu.edu (Judson Eleicester Lester) Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd Subject: Re: PUBLIUS: Right One Date: 1 Mar 1995 12:17:34 GMTI'd like to add the major theme of Crossing to the list I've been making up. There are several examples of this theme throughout the artwork (and possibly the music, I haven't checked.) The X-shaped shadow on the left hand head in AGDFF is the most concrete example mentioned before this.What of the fact that in order to put the gloves on and have them be in the position they are pictured in, you would have to cross your arms? I'm fairly sure this has been mentioned, but I thought it was interesting. (Has anyone noticed that the only three songs whose artwork does NOT contain two faces facing each other are CO, TIB and HH? CO and HH are opposite each other, but TIB is opposite AGDFF. Has this import?
In februari 1996, Sandy came up with a theory about the crosses. They might mark the spot where we can find what we are looking for. Read more about it in 'Does X mark the spot?".
