POP culture

Premises Of Post-Objectivism



Description: This chat session, which made the front page on Yack.com, took place on March 19 2000. It is a one hour chat with Thomas Gramstad on warrior/heroine feminists, past, present and future. Xena: Warrior Princess, La Femme Nikita, and Buffy the Vampire Slayer are prominent examples of the new ideals of female heroism. What is their relevance to individualist feminism? Why is our culture fascinated with woman warriors? This version of the transcript differs from those at Ifeminists.com and Talkopolis.com in the following ways:
  1. I've activated links to all references and URLs mentioned during the chat.
  2. I've cleaned up some typoes and grammatical errors (those that could obfuscate meaning).
  3. I lingered in the chat forum for about 15-20 minutes after the formal hour ended. This version of the chat transcript includes those 15-20 minutes as well (see Part 2). This includes some replies to backlog questions from the formal hour.

wendymcelroy (19-Mar-00 7:02:19 PM)
Tonight's topic is "The Cultural Phenomenon of Warrior Heroines" as embodied in smash TV shows such as Xena: Warrior Princess, La Femme Nikita and Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Why are we so preoccupied with warrior women? Thomas Gramstad - moderator of the Randian Feminism and Libfem e-mail mailing lists as well as fine author - is an expert in this field. Give him your toughest questions.

spear What are the age/gender demographics for these shows?

wendymcelroy Spear...I suspect the age demographics are quite young for these TV programs. If anecdotal evidence counts, I believe it is about 50/50 in the genders. But Thomas Gramstad is the expert...and I believe he has just arrived. Thomas...is that you?

spear I figured the men just want to see the women get it on.

sullkitten Xena rocks

Thomas Hello everybody, Thomas Gramstad here... About the demographics question - I know a little about this for Xena, which is big among both genders, mostly young people. In Norway, 80 % of viewers are between 17-34 years of age

wendymcelroy Tonight, we are lucky to have Thomas Gramstad, author of "The Female Hero: A Randian-Feminist Synthesis" which appeared in "Feminist Interpretations of Ayn Rand". Thomas is an eloquent expert on warrior heroines as I mentioned previously. Please let me turn the floor over to Thomas and let us focus upon tonight's topic.

sullkitten welcome Thomas

wendymcelroy Thomas, does the warrior heroine date back to Greek mythology or what is the origin in psyche of man/woman that makes it so powerful today? Does it have valid historical roots?

spear In Norway it's xena or cliffdiving.

Bookish I must admit I haven't read "The Female Hero." But surely female heroes predate rand?

Thomas Have you guys seen my web site - The Amazon Connection? It is a compilation of female hero and warrior sources and references: http://www.ifi.uio.no/~thomas/lists/amazon-links.html

Linda Rader Rand would not even say she wrote a female hero, Bookish

Thomas Sure Bookish, female heroes predate Rand. I think Rand's contribution is an understanding of what heroism is and how it operates and why it is a human need to have heroes, and to aspire to "heroic being".

zinc Is Dana Scully a heroic warrior woman? Surely so.

sullkitten Scully is cool

hadyn I love Xena! I've seen nearly every episode :-)

Bookish I'm looking at your site now, Thomas. This seems to be a rather broad definition of 'amazon'.

Wyatt I haven't seen any Xena, but I would single out Buffy as the best show on tv right now

Thomas Is "heroine" and "female hero" the same? I think heroine also has connotations of passivity, being the prize of the (male) hero. The term female hero avoids those connotations.

sullkitten huh, like "lead female"

spear Think there are any lesbian fantasies to Xena?

hadyn There's an oft-debated lesbian "subtext" to Xena

Linda Rader The terms are getting mixed Thomas. In romance novels they still say heroine, but her activism has changed and she's the female hero.

zinc oh it's hardly a subtext.

wendymcelroy Remember we have an expert to whom questions can and should be addressed. Thomas, is there any connection between warrior heroines and a sexual preference for dominant women?

hadyn It's been a hot topic on Xena lists & sites since the series started

Bookish I'm at a disadvantage because I watch very little TV. Can you suggest an example of a female hero from recent films?

hadyn Sure - Everafter with Drew Barrymore

HRearden Thomas what is your opinion of Joan of Arc as a hero?

Thomas Yes, I agree the terms are getting mixed. Still, another thing I like about female hero is that hero shouldn't exclude females; hero shouldn't be a gendered word.

wendymcelroy Thomas...what is your personal preference between Xena, Nikita and Buffy...and why?

sullkitten I like your point abot the non-gendered word. Then you can just say "hero" when its obvious it's a woman.

Linda Rader Then we shouldn't use female hero here, but I would disagree that Rand felt she had a female hero. She purposely tried to write male heroes that women worshiped. Whether we prefer that or not now, it was her take.

spear Thomas. How was Xena conceived? What was the point?

zinc it's made by the same folks who do hercules, right?

sullkitten I think Dagny is a pretty powerful female character

HRearden Hank Rearden thought Dagny was a powerful woman.

Bookish I'm not sure where we draw the line for "hero." I'd think Dagny Taggart would qualify.

Thomas There is no necessary connection between a liking for warrior women and a preference for sexually dominating women, but in practice I think most sexually submissive males like to see warrior women, heroic women. But they are not the only ones; many non-submissives too like strong women. Many people who want sexual equality like to watch warrior women and heroic women.

Wyatt If I remember correctly, the exec producer of Xena and Hercules was the director of the "evil dead" series. He most recently directed "For Love of The Game". His name escapes me, tho.

hadyn Rob Tapert, he & Lucy Lawless (Xena) are married with a new baby

wendymcelroy Thomas, is Dagny a warrior heroine in the sense you are using the word. What exactly is the warrior part of that term referring to? Doing battle against great odds? BTW, Thomas, pick whichever question intrigue you the most. Everyone wants to get your comments! ;-)

spear Knowing the motives of the creators of Xena would help.

HRearden I don't see how a dominant woman can respect a submissive man.

zinc spear, money!!!

Thomas About Joan of Arc: that's a good one. Today's typical picture of her is as a fanatical religious nut case who succeeded partly because the men admired her, partly from luck and partly from tenacity - I don't think that's heroic. But the real Joan of Arc, as far as we can tell, was very much pagan, was intelligent and bright, learning military strategy quickly, rejecting gender restrictions of her days - this surely is heroic. See Barbara Walker's book, Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets for a good reference of Joan of Arc.

Bookish I think the term "sexually dominating women" is ambiguous here. Are we talking domination in the S&M sense or merely in the sense of control?

hadyn Another TV heroine might be Laura, the character Stephanie Zimbalist played opposite Pierce Brosnan in "Remington Steele"

sullkitten how about emma peel from the avengers?

wendymcelroy Creators of Xena, et al are tapping into a zeitgeist, for the want of a better term, and doing it so well that they themselves must be in tune with something. It is like Wonder Women of my childhood x10 in terms of popularity.

HRearden Yes. Emma was good. Wonder Woman is my favorite. Perhaps its the costume.

wendymcelroy Good point about Joan of Arc, Thomas. Her persona was far better than her myth.

Bookish Thomas, what exactly constitutes heroism? In your view.

HRearden I was not aware that Joan of Arc was pagan.

sullkitten pagans are cool

Thomas Bookish: look for movies with Geena Davies or Sigourney Weaver, e.g., The Alien movies. See also Linda Hamilton in Terminator 2 (especially).

sullkitten yeah Aliens

zinc linda hamilton was pretty frizzled out in terminator... a reluctant heroine...

Thomas I like Xena, Buffy and Nikita as different examples and don't really want to choose between them - I probably prefer Xena because she's more in control of her life, she's an adult in charge of her destiny.
Nikita is trapped in an oppressive system, and Buffy is not adult. But Buffy is very smart, very strong, and also I love her sharp wit, the humor in Buffy, so that's a high score with me too.

Bookish Thomas, thanks. I thought the character of Ripley in Aliens would be a good example.

sullkitten Aliens had another very strong female character ..

zinc the alien itself!

HRearden Thomas who are the real life female heros living today?

sullkitten oh yeah, the alien, but one of the soldiers as well

wendymcelroy I thought Linda Hamilton was a perfect warrior heroine in Terminator because she had to overcome herself and she rose wonderfully to confront an almost impossible challenger.

zinc i can see that

wendymcelroy Thomas...how much historical validity is there to Amazons and other warrior heroine cultures?

spear ...what do she and hero have as a purpose in life?

sullkitten good question

Thomas In Xena you also have other strong women, like the Amazons; I like that thing too, that Xena is not the only strong woman in her universe. She isn't a freak, a deviant. She's a potential in every woman (and man).

HRearden I consider female nurses who served in WWII heros. Especially ones who were held prisoner by the enemy.

spear Yeah, but what are these people about? Who do they lead and why?

Thomas About sexually dominating women - I meant women in control, not necessarily SM.

wendymcelroy Thomas...what is the difference between strong women and dominant women? And - do you agree with Rand - does a strong woman require a strong man to be actualized?

wendymcelroy Remember guys and gals...sending private messages is a good way to communicate more effectively one on one with everyone but our guest.

sullkitten Thomas .. to repeat an earlier q by Wendy .. What kinda historical accuracy is there to the Amazon women?

Thomas There are women who are physically powerful or skilled, enough to be better fighters, stronger than most men - these could be in control by virtue of their physical prowess. I find that much more interesting than the idea of women being in control because of props (whether a literary prop like Witchblade, or SM props like tying the man etc.). So in fiction I prefer women who have natural abilities and strength that they have honed, not superheroines with some unnatural power, and in real life I prefer powerfully built women, not SM stuff.

Linda Rader Adding to Wendy's comment. Does a strong women, or any hero, need a "love object" such as a man or in the case of a lesbian, a woman to be actualized?

HRearden Thomas are the members of the womens olympic soccer team heros?

Thomas Linda - I think commercial values of lesbianism is up for two reasons. One, that other groups are more visible now than before, and second, that younger people are more open to alternatives and they are replacing older people. It's just like marketers have discovered that black women are a group with money that they can market things to. White men are not as much a norm for human being as they (we) used to be.

spear Of what benefit are these shows to young women in terms of real life?

wendymcelroy It is almost the 1/2 hour point and I want to remind everyone to send their e-mail address to mac@zetetics.com to enter the draw for a 1st edition PB of Ayn Rand's "The Romantic Manifesto". The chance to win is high. Last week's winner was login user "arrrrr"

HRearden Is Captain Janeway a woman hero?

Bookish I'll second spear's question.

nskinsella Janeway is a murderer. remember the Tuvox episode.

hadyn I think Janeway is bizarre. I was very excited at the prospect of Voyager, but the character seems written in such a way that she makes poor decisions.

zinc janeway is a sad imitation of picard

Thomas Bookish: on heroism, see my article here: http://www.ifi.uio.no/~thomas/po/heroism.html

wendymcelroy Thomas, Do you think that most/many/few fans of shows like Xena and Nikita are also fans of Rand? She would naturally seem to inspire a reverence for dominant women...dominant in the positive sense.

Bookish Thanks, Thomas.

Thomas: Sullkitten: I'm a big fan of Vasquez in Aliens, even more than I am of Ripley. Did you know that Jenette Goldstein got more fan mail than anyone else in Aliens?

wendymcelroy Again, people should check out Thomas' provocative essay in " Feminist Interpretations of Ayn Rand." He is also the moderator of the active e-mail mailing list on Randian feminism. Go Thomas!

sullkitten Oh yeah Vasquez! Yeah, she was totally awesome ....

Thomas Yeah, G.I. Jane is great. Check out my web page! :-)

sullkitten That's interesting she got more fan mail

HRearden Thomas do you know if the person who created the Xena character is a Rand fan.

zinc ...I think they are clearly a Chase Manhattan fan...

sullkitten I think I have some kinda issue with the woman who stars in G.I. Jane - what's her name again?

zinc demi moore

sullkitten oooh demi moore, yuck

wendymcelroy But, why, Thomas. Why the shift in our culture to idolizing buff, warrior women. In the 50's it was Barbie types and preppies. What's different today, fundamentally?

HRearden Some have said G.I. Jane is unrealistic. What is your thought?

nskinsella Thomas (hope this is not a redundant query), any choices on best actresses to play Dagny in the upcoming Atlas miniseries? How about Kim Kattral.

Thomas Real female heroes living today: anyone who reaches for the best in herself. Anyone who challenges social restrictions such as gender roles that try to keep her from being the best she can be. I particularly like visible symbols like female athletes, actresses etc.

HRearden Thomas do you consider Lady Thatcher a hero?

nskinsella Hey, she's no lady.

Bookish Re. the culture shift (Wendy's question), is this perhaps a result of modern feminism? An unintended consequence, so to speak.

Linda Rader or postmodern feminism?

spear What can young women get from these shows?

Bookish I'd think mid- to late pre-postmodern feminism. :-)

spear postfeminine modernism?

Thomas Wendy - strong women are a wider class than dominant women. I don't think a strong woman needs a man to be actualized. For example, some women are lesbians and can still be actualized strong women. One can be a celibate and still be strong. But I think other people, including lovers, who share one's values can help and play a very important role. Especially heroes and role models one perceives when one is young.

sullkitten Especially in fiction where a romantic interest is very important in holding your audience

scruffy I'm working with a few of these ladies, locomotive engineers on our railroad super trains hauling coal.

scruffy These women are putting their kids through school and helping maintain a decent standard of living.

zinc scruffy, that sounds like you're making women second class citizens

scruffy You misread me, they are very much my equal.

zinc ok

wendymcelroy I think part of what these shows offer young women is a glimpse of incredible physical competence and courage against great odds.

Leona I agree.

Thomas About "love object" - yes I think you need to love someone or something. That is, heroic desire precedes heroic being, and heroic desire must be awakened by the perception of something or someone heroic. The guy who made Wonder Woman was a psychologist who knew this, he made WW to address this need for perception.

hadyn I definitely agree with you, Thomas, about athletes as heros - even tho I am older than many of the best in the WNBA, I still get shivers watching them take command of the floor.

zinc uh oh, you can get xena.com email... http://www.xena.com/email/index.html

Bookish Is there too much emphasis on physical accomplishment in these shows?

Wendy: Linda what does your daughter think of these shows?

Linda Rader She never misses Xena or Herc, and Dick never misses Xena

Bookish To use a male example, I've always thought of Superman as all brawn and no brains. Hardly a good role model.

zinc a woman is a hero if she can do what most men do

Thomas HR - members of women's olympic soccer team can be heroes; at least they can be symbols of heroism by being perceived as such. Janeway is a hero.

sullkitten Thomas, you're very good at keeping track of all these questions!

Thomas Oh, OK, I haven't seen very many Voyager episodes, not familiar with Tuvox episode.

spear Any intellectual models for females?

nskinsella That was the one where Tuvok & Neelix were merged by accident into a new being. Janeway forcibly split him back into the other 2, against his will, thereby killing him.

Thomas Wendy - hard to say if Xena and Nikita fans are also Rand fans, I don't know the demographics on that one. Would be an interesting study.

Linda Rader Any thoughts on the power puff girls?

sullkitten power puff girls ??

Thomas HR: Don't know if Tapert & co. are Rand fans. I'll try to find out later!

wendymcelroy Greeting armen2 and welcome to the ifeminist chat room. Welcome slow hand.

Thomas Wendy: why warrior women today? I think the question is backwards: the real question is: why not in the 50s? And that has to do with gender role socialization as a means to maintain existing power. But gender roles are unnatural, women are just as heroic as men, and men need female heroism just as much as women do, so it had to burst through the restrictions at some point. The life force cannot be contained forever. We are lucky enough to be there when it happens.

HRearden The bionic woman might be a hero to some people.

wendymcelroy Can a warrior heroine be soft-spoken and polite, and look up to a man tremendously. I feel as though I am being left out of the category altogether! ;-)

Thomas HR: I like Bionic Woman, but again, she's the hero type that is a freak, technologically enhanced, so she doesn't really express the potential in real women, not fully. So Modesty Blaise would be better in comparison with Bionic Woman.

hadyn So, Thomas, you attribute the increase in warrior-women in film and television to the changes in gender roles since the 1950's?

IK No woman that hates other strong women is a hero to me. Of course Thatcher was and is a lady. Unfortunately. That is good about Xena as an idol, she tolerates other strong women. Amazons should be sisters in arms and in life.

HRearden Thomas was Mary Wollstonecraft a hero? Don't know the correct spelling.

Bookish Returning to - or perhaps rephrasing - Spear's question: are any of these female heroes intellectual role models?

Elias Alias Hi....sorry to be late......I'll just lurk quietly :)

sullkitten lurk on

sullkitten Is CatWoman a hero? She's awesome. Much better than batgirl

hadyn IK - I so agree with you about tolerating other strong women. It's such an important part to achieving equality in the workplace and such.

HRearden A bad person can't be a hero?

Linda Rader No HR that's a supervillain

sullkitten supervillain, thats the nastiest kind of villain!!

scruffy Let's go back a little, Harriet Tubbman, good woman I think

hadyn Spear - Just so you know, I'm still thinking about your question. It's maybe a great topic for the list?

wendymcelroy As we draw near to the top of the hour, remember everyone to send me your e-mail address in order to enter the drawing tomorrow morning for the 1st edition PB of Ayn Rand's "The Romantic Manifesto." - mac@zetetics.com. Last week's winner was login user "arrrrrr." Also...our guest next week is Bettina Greaves to discuss her decades-long association and friendship with Ludwig von Mises.

Olaf Talking about girls!! - you should come to Iceland - there we have the first elected woman president - a woman mayor - almost half of the parliament are girls - half of the ministers are girls - half of the population and even more than half of my family - gheez what is happening to this world ;-)

Thomas Feminism: yes I definitely think that played a role in preparing the ground for warrior women, heroic women, strong women being visible. But I think it is an expression of the life force (which both women and men have). So feminism is an expression of the life force too, when it works for strong women. You cannot contain the life force for too long, that's why the patriarchalists will always be on the defensive.

sullkitten Wow cool Olaf

HRearden Women baseball players during WWII could be thought of as heros.

Linda Rader John, half the people in the United States are women too.

Olaf and even in Iceland we have half of prettiest girls in the world ;-)

sullkitten Amazing!!!

spear And women pass on the surname in Iceland.

sullkitten Let's just hope that Hillary isn't president any time soon!!!!

HRearden Or Senator.

zinc yikes, that's one warrior woman i'd like to forget about

Linda Rader Hey, stop with the Hillary bashing

Olaf I like Hillary. Hillary came to a woman conference in Iceland and was amazingly good - she spoke 1 hour without any notes - and even made sense ;-)

Bookish Finally found this on your page, Thomas: "the four components of heroism: moral greatness, ability or prowess, action in the face of opposition, and triumph in at least a spiritual, if not a physical, form."

hadyn HRearden mentioned women baseball players - I'd add in the women who worked in the factories as well.

Thomas Bookish: brawn and brain. Yes, I agree, intelligence is important. But for me, and I believe many people, the physical can be a symbol for the heroic. E.g., see ancient Greek sculpture. Heroism is action; the physical is action. That's part of the link.

scruffy I had a grand-aunt that was the first deputy sheriff and sheriff in the US. hero yes.

LaffingKat I knew the woman who Geena Davis's character in "A League of Their Own" was based on. I think she met all of Thomas's characteristics for a hero. She was a very smart and very independent lady, but also very caring.

Thomas HR: Yes, Wollstonecraft is a hero and an Amazon. Thatcher is not. She's an "anti-amazon" - a woman who was strong, but who served patriarchy and worked against other women (she didn't choose any women to her govt., e.g.)
To illustrate this point, I like this quote from a Hercules episode:
"It's not blood that makes an Amazon warrior - it's training and preparation and attitude. We need to be able to count on each other - watch each other's back." (Surrie in HTLJ: # 66, Prodigal Sister)
The quote shows that amazons are about community, friendship and love as well as single acts of heroism.

sullkitten Hillary can go raise her own village

zinc i bet bill likes xena

Bookish So would the movie Norma Rae (do I remember that correctly?) represent a non-physical female hero?

Linda Rader I bet he doesn't Zinc

Olaf I say - let the girls take over the government and businesses - so we boys can go more out and have a good time without the stress symptoms - we will even start to live longer

wendymcelroy Well...it is the top of the hour. I want to thank Thomas Gramstad for being a wonderful guest. I want to remind everyone again to send their e-mail addresses to mac@zetetics.com for the drawing tomorrow. And y'all come back for Bettina Greaves discussing her decades-long association with Ludwig von Mises next week.

zinc ya! this was cool thomas, thanks!

Linda Rader Thank you Thomas. And heil Warrior Wendy

Bookish Thanks very much for the chat, Thomas.

sullkitten Hey, thanks Thomas

spear Thanks, Thomas.

hadyn definitely! Thanks a bunch to Thomas, Wendy & all you other great chatters :-)

Elias Alias Thank you very much. :) And thank you too, Thomas

zinc so thomas what do you teach at university, math?

HRearden Maybe Thatcher did not select women to her government because there were few to choose from in her party.

wendymcelroy Everyone should feel free to stay for as long as they wish, but I am calling an end to the official portion of the chat room and giving our guest a graceful chance to leave in case he has other matters demanding his attention.

scruffy My first chat, thanks all....

Thomas Thanks everyone - I'll hang around a little more and try to catch up with some of the lagging questions.

Leona thanks

Linda Rader you did great scruffy

wendymcelroy Good night one and all. Have an ifeminist sorta week. Logging off.

spear We're Wendyless.

Olaf Sounds intellectual!

zinc i feel as if my head has been cut off.

zinc thomas, is malmo in norway?

Olaf sweden

zinc oh, ok...

hadyn I lost Thomas' website! Please repost!

Linda Rader The power puff girls are a nickelodeon cartoon about 3 little girls with super hero powers and all the elementary girls in my "group" wear t-shirts with them on it

spear Olaf. Women pass on the surname in Iceland, no?

hadyn That sounds really cute. what do you think of it?

Bookish http://www.ifi.uio.no/~thomas/lists/amazon-links.html

hadyn thanks

Olaf (we all keep our own name)

Thomas About historical amazons: we don't know for sure that societies existed where women had monopoly on military and leader positions. But we do know that many societies allowed women as well as men as warriors or soldiers. Even in a patriarchal society like medieval Japan there were women warriors. Follow the historical and archaeological links on my web site.

spear OK.

Olaf but we are sons and daughters of our fathers

sullkitten cool

Olaf My fathers name is Ragnar - so I am Ragnarsson

spear Used to load your airline at JFK.

Linda Rader good Randian name Ragnar

Olaf My sister is Ragnarsdottir

scruffy The powder puff girl I remember drove stock cars...

zinc wild.

Olaf Ragnar an old norse god

HRearden Danneskjold is a friend.

Thomas Geena Davis and Angela Bassett are my two favorite actresses.

zinc i'd never heard that olaf

Linda Rader I must go....the huns are at the door and my people must be saved. Night

hadyn Night Linda!

sullkitten night linda

Olaf that's why we can track our families 1000 years back

spear night Linda.

Thomas Not familiar with Norma Rae, sorry. Could you tell me more?

Linda Rader Night sully, toot toot Spear

B.G. wuz up

zinc everyone the transcript of tonight's mosh pit, er, chat, will be at http://www.talkopolis.com/transcripts

Bookish It's been years. Sally Field as a union organizer, if I recall correctly.

Linda Rader Nice meeting you bookish, and always a pleasure zinc

sullkitten i was moshin just last night

Olaf and Icelanders are beeing used in genetic research now for it is easy to track the genes and isolate health problems

Elias Alias Thank you all. Thomas, got your site bookmarked. Sullkitten, thanks for welcome. Nite all.....see ya next week

zinc Thomas, what do you teach at oslo U?

spear What's next for female fare, Thomas?

Matthew Hello.

zinc olaf, are you aware that there is a minor entertaiment industry in the US running off of jokes about scandinavians?

sullkitten hi matthew

Olaf well guys and mostly gals - nice meeting you - cya later - take care - be the heroines in the future as in the past ;-)

Matthew Am I late? Is the conference over?

zinc Minnesota Public Radio is at the forefront of this field

sullkitten yeah just wrapping up

zinc matthew... yep

Bookish Matthew, the official part is over, yes.

zinc you can read transcript though

Matthew Aw... :(

hadyn Night all!

zinc http://www.talkopolis.com/transcripts

sullkitten Ragnar is very cool

Thomas I have been called the Ragnar Danneskjold of feminism... I felt very flattered...

zinc Thomas is still here...

zinc ask him your question

sullkitten Thomas have you heard of a band called Kittie?

sullkitten they are very cool

Bookish good night, all

zinc so are you in the math department Thomas?

sullkitten g'nite bookish

Thomas what's next - my article the female hero will soon be out on my web site.

spear What shows do you think will follow the current heroine thing?

sullkitten okay i'm out, later, thanks again Thomas

Matthew Who won the door prize?

zinc email mac@zetetics.com matthew

Thomas I'm sort of multidisciplinary - biology, chem, math, computer science, media, history of ideas, feminism/ws. I work at the university library, where I can find stuff about all my interests.

zinc she will make the drawing tomorrow

Thomas Not heard of Kitties - tell more?

spear Your politics, Thomas?

zinc so you are working on your phd?

zinc gotta jet. bye all.

Thomas Oh, I forgot one of Wendy's questions - about being softspoken and look up to one's male lover? Yes, you can combine "feminine" and "masculine" traits as you like, what matters is that you are true to yourself. That's what heroism really is.

scruffy I hear my train a com'in, bye-bye

Thomas Not working on phd yet, maybe in time - I need more formal background in the humanities. Studying history of ideas presently.

spear Thanks again, Thomas. Night.

Thomas See also this "definition" page of woman warrior:

Matthew Sorry I missed the conference, Thomas. Perhaps another time. :-)

Leona bye

Thomas I'm signing off folks - thanks for the chat. Take care, and -

Leona thanks Thomas

Leona bye


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